September 16, 2004
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What is the difference between murder and killing? Malicious intent? If so, what intent is not murder.
I've heard before that people justify being a soldier by claiming it's not murder. The Bible condemns murder, but not killing. Obviously capital punishment isn't murder, as it was done in OT days without contradiction.
The reason I say all this has much to do with an argument put forth by Dr. Davis in bioethics class today. It goes like so:
Killing human beings is murder
A fetes is a human being
:. killing a fetus is murder
For those of you who don't know, abortion isn't the clearest issue in my mind. I've really not decided where I stand on the issue. This argument seems to have great swaying power though. Let us look at a couple of alternative counterarguments.
The first premise is false: killing humans is not always murder. This seems to me the best bet in trying to defeat this argument. Honestly, it's not the most popular, or well used in pro-life circles, but it works best to me. If you can justify killing humans under the right conditions, well, then you can move toward the pro-choice position. The problem is, I really don't know how to define murder. If any of you reading this has a good idea of it, comment.
Another, and the route of most pro-choice arguments, is that a fetus is not a human. Ok, now, what makes something human or not is a huge can of worms (as if abortion isn't), but the pro-choice movement has been known to take things as far as saying that a baby is only human the instant it comes out of the womb. There is nothing biologically different with the child, simply it's location. This seems like madness to me: there has to be some kind of deciding factor other then convenience. Well, I really don't know, and I guess that’s the problem. I cell, divided a few times, does not seem to me to be human. However, a baby right ready to be born is, of course, a human. Where the line is drawn in between is a sketchy scene. I've heard different arguments about times and such, they go both ways. I suppose I don't really know. Personhood and humanity are such ambiguous terms, and yet we seem forced to use them... le sigh.
And, lest we forget the most emotionally compelling augment, I have to talk about woman’s rights. It is often said that a woman should be able to do whatever she wants, because it is her body. But then again, we come to the issue of who the baby is. Does it have rights as a person? And even above that, does a woman have a certain amount of responsibility regarding the issue. Just because I want to do something bad to myself does not mean I should. Is the government infringing on my rights when it says I cannot ingest certain drugs? Should I not be free to do to myself what I wish?
Some would say: would you rather have woman doing it in back alleys with cote hangers and Lysol? Certainly that is a horrible though. I would wish that on no person. Right now I wish it would just happen neither way. But the fact remains that it would probably happen were abortion illegal. And yet, it doesn't change the seeming immorality of it all. I can't help but think of things like cocaine, heroin, E, or meth, even marijuana for that matter. Anyone who has ever smoked weed in a city has probably ran into some laced shit; it's not good. I've heard horror stories of bad meth and E, it can kill an unknowing person just because it's made shittily. In all of the cases, legalization would cut back on the instances of some of these negative effects. And yet, it still remains a bad idea; and it still remains that legalizing it would do nothing if not increase the popularity of these things exponentially.
Another issue then: ought the government dictate morality? I have, of course, been arguing for the immorality of abortion all along, and just a second ago I took it to a legal level. The thing is: what else should the law be made for? The perfect law is morality itself. I suppose I should be more brushed up on my political philosophy to get this right: but law and morality are inseparable. Things like murder and theft, these are prime examples. Law is based on morality. Of course, the morality the law is based off of, in a democracy, is whatever the majority believes. Heh, so I suppose were it legalized I would be forced to bow to democracy or move. And the fact still remains, I vote NDP.
Comments (5)
i don't know where i stand on the issue either.. for the longest time i was like, well, the only way i could see it being "okay" was if a woman became pregnant as a result of rape, but then i got into a debate adn used that point, and my friend counter acted taht and was like "but doesn't that just create a second innocent victim?"
where i don't think abortions are alright, is when they are readily available as a form of birth control, the new "morning after pill".. but there are problems with that mind set.. a) abortions are not good for your body, think about it, you are taking pills powerful enough to kill a fetus, you better believe it damages your body as well..
but i think, we can not fully understandm, unless we are put in that place.. so in the meanwhile.. i am pro adoption..
I don't think the argument falls apart in the first premise if you clearly define what murder is.
No one would argue that, if the fetus is human, it is right to kill them.
The issue is mostly whether or not the fetus is human.
The problem with clearly defining a place where the fetus is human is that it dodges the more important question.. Is it wrong to kill something, that without the abortive intervention, will grow up a baby, child, teenager? Is it not human enough to be heading towards the stage of being born?
I wouldn't dismiss other methods of birth control, because, unjoined with the other gender's cell, naturally hundreds of eggs and millions sperm cells die over someone's lifetime, and wouldn't have the same property of continuing towards a human baby. But once the egg is fertilized, that all changes.
Blah. I'm just going on and on, but perhaps there's something in there worth seeing.
hey Aron, hahah ahh u noe what sucks all these tyndale people are leaving comments on my xanga and i have no idea who there are....ugh....well i was at the caf on wednesday...its just i didn;t get ur msg untill i got home hahah later that night(ugh i had a night class...ahah with Davis..love that prof!) anyways hopefully i'll see ya soon....mmm somehow?....anyways..u gonna be doing dishes again? haha...anwyasy im gonna go now so much reading and tommrow the Frosh thing is happening...anwyays ttyl
As far as how to define murder... Rather than define murder I looked up what the actual commandment is in Deuteronomy... though many versions do say "Do not Murder", there are a number that say "Do not KILL" (KJV, NLV, KJ21, ASV, DARBY) and the English Standard Version has a footnote on the word murder that says "The Hebrew word also covers causing human death through carelessness or negligence "
Check it out:
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=deuteronomy+5%3A17&NIV_version=yes&NASB_version=yes&MSG_version=yes&_version=yes&NLT_version=yes&KJV_version=yes&NLV_version=yes&HCSB_version=yes&ESV_version=yes&CEV_version=yes&NKJV_version=yes&KJ21_version=yes&ASV_version=yes&WE_version=yes&YLT_version=yes&DARBY_version=yes&WYC_version=yes&NIRV_version=yes&NIV-UK_version=yes&language=english&x=23&y=8
The problem with modern debates about abortion is that everyone always assumes without research to back up their claims that abortion is not detrimental to health unless there are complications (ex. infection, reduced fertility). I haven't actually researched this myself (although, i may make this the topic of a nursing paper eventually), but i know that the procedure of abortion has serious psycological effects on the mother. A woman who undergoes an abortion needs extensive counseling to overcome feelings of guilt and doubts. I read a book that focussed on the negative psycological effects abortion has on women, often lasting far into their later adult years....The book was a fictional novel, but the author is known for her thorough research. Can i point to a specific study? No. But i can firmly state that i believe if you have an honnest conversation with a woman who has gone through this, she will tell you (if she's being honnest with herself) that she has serious doubts and guilt about what she has done. What's my point in all this? Abortion is not in favour of a woman's rights because she is often tricked into thinking it will have no negative consequences in her later life. It also brings up an interesting question: Why does abortion cause such negative effects?
I believe that women are damaged psychologically because we as humans are born with an inate sense of right and wrong (comes with being made in the image of God). Whether or not killing is murder, killing a child is wrong. I don't know how i would define killing and murder to be honnest, but it doesn't really matter if you look at it from this perspective: There is a child begging on the streets that nobody wants. I am walking down the sidewalk one day and the child gets in my way and i have to step around him. Everyone in their right mind knows that it would be wrong to kill that child simply because he got in my way. I know i'm making the issue seem smaller than it is, but i'm just trying to say that killing a child is wrong, no matter what the reason. God didn't allow war because killing was acceptable. He allowed it because it was necessary at the time. I think that killing an innocent child is rarely necessary in God's eyes. What i see in the Bible is that killing was only necessary when God specifically commanded it, and i don't think He has commanded us to kill babies if they are unwanted.
So what makes a fetus a child? I've always believed that the fetus becomes a human being at the moment of conception. I know that a single cell with a bunch of chromosomes is not much in our eyes. But what makes a human human is not our body mass. When God created man, he created him in HIS image. Therefore, we, as humans, have souls and not just body mass. There is a CONCRETE part of us that is temporarily bound by, but does not exist as matter. I believe that God puts His image into us at conception simply because it doesn't make sense to think of it at birth (what happens if the baby arrives a day before the due date, does that mean it doesn't have a soul for a day?) I'm not good at scriptural interpretation by any means, but there are some verses that talk about God "forming us in our mother's womb". I suppose things get sketchy if you have reason to believe that God puts his image on us at a different point, but for me, i cannnot find any evidence of that.
So i believe that abortion is MORALLY wrong, yes. What should make it legally wrong then? I don't believe that the law we live under as Canadians needs to replicate the law we live under as Christians...we are not of this world....and laws like "turn the other cheek" would simply not work in a court of law where suing is a reality. Human nature, without God's spirit--as most of the world is living presently--cannot make itself unselfish. So, unfortunately, for the time being, we are stuck with "what achieves the highest amount of good for the population" or something like that. Law is really based on human selfishmess. We outlaw stealing because we do not want to have our things stolen. I doubt very much that we care whether the next guy's things are stolen or not, but we have to punish someone for stealing his stuff because then if it ever happens to us, we have the right to carry out the same course of action. I'm not saying that we shouldn't steal simply because we don't want others to steal our things. We as Christians know that stealing and killing are wrong because they are contrary to God's character. And since all hamuns do have some sense of "right and wrong"....a lot of laws are influenced by our moral sense. I'm sure that the law against murder was made partly becuase it's morally wrong and partly because it achieves the higher good for society. Why should abortion be illegal then? It is not going to help women achieve their "greatest good" (not to mention completely eliminating any chance of "greatest good" for the child) It's very damaging to their emotional and often physical health (might decrease fertility). And it doesn't solve any problems. Women who have abortions do so because they feel like they have no other choice. THey have been empregnated because they are not educated to know better. (i'm excluding rape victims of course, and in that case, i think it would require a moral decison on the part of the woman and perhaps not legal interference, i'm not sure about that point yet.) And soon after they have an abortion they will go and get pregnant again. The abortion may in their minds get rid of the problem temporarily. But the real problem was never the child. The problem is the fact that they are uneducated and living in conditions that put them at risk for all sorts of things, and not just unwanted pregnancies. i'm really just getting at the view that to solve a problem, you have to fix the source of the problem and not the consequences. Abortion doesn't fix anything because it gives the illusion that big problems have simple solutions.
THat's why i agree with voting NDP....i don't think that abortion should be legal of course, but the liberal view is that we have to focus on providing basic human rights to everyone and improving the lives of the less-fortunate. (yes, i developed this view mainly as a result of talking with dan). If you work on the things that cause unwanted pregnances (poverty, lack of education), then you will eliminate the need for abortion. At least, that's the theory....communism works in theory as well. meh.....
I have written entirely too much, and i'm now ashamed of myself. I could go on longer too, but i don't have time. I should really talk with you about this some time though...it would be interesting. I'm still sorting through some of my arguments on the subject.
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